Comments on: Coming Out of the (Religious) Closet http://therottenlittlegirls.com/2009/01/13/coming-out-of-the-religious-closet/ Sun, 29 Aug 2010 15:31:02 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: Michelle http://therottenlittlegirls.com/2009/01/13/coming-out-of-the-religious-closet/#comment-3467 Michelle Wed, 23 Dec 2009 06:07:55 +0000 http://therottenlittlegirls.com/?p=2234#comment-3467 I am a faced with a very difficult situation with someone who has been a friend for over 20 years. She was brought up with religion and has a strong faith, for a time I "wanted" to believe and during a brief period I claimed to believe in God. I wanted to believe in an After Life because it was a "nice thought" but a lot of things in the name of Christianity struggled against my own values and beliefs. I have never been upfront with her and for several years we really weren't in touch. Once she had a child she reconnected with me, by that time I already had a 3 year old daughter as well as a son. We have been spending more time together recently with our children and while she doesn't know that I am Atheist she has "caught on" that God is not in my children's vocabulary. Bit by bit she has been introducing it to theirs in my presence. Most recently she invited us to a Christmas Party for her son and my kids and as I anticipated there was a strong religious theme. She read a children's religious story and asked questions afterwards and rewarded them with a Children's Religous story to take home for answering some questions. I was very uncomfortable in the situation and it has been bothering me ever since. I am at a bit of a loss with how to deal with it. Well truthfully I know what the best way to deal with it is, but I am not assertive by nature and this is one topic I really tend to avoid. I have described it in exactly the way you titled your post "Coming out of the Closet". I have mixed feelings, I am angry at her for thinking it's her place to introduce my children to religion/god, I sympathize that someone with a strong faith might be very upset at the thought of the people they love and care about not "meeting their maker" but ultimately I would never do what she did and is doing. Regardless of what I believe or don't believe I don't want my children to be indoctrinated. I want them to explore religion/faith on their own terms and in their own time. I would never think it was my place to sit her son down and teach him Evolution but then I know they are Christian's she doesn't know my beliefs or non beliefs. Any advice out there from yourself or your readers would be welcome. I am a faced with a very difficult situation with someone who has been a friend for over 20 years. She was brought up with religion and has a strong faith, for a time I “wanted” to believe and during a brief period I claimed to believe in God. I wanted to believe in an After Life because it was a “nice thought” but a lot of things in the name of Christianity struggled against my own values and beliefs. I have never been upfront with her and for several years we really weren’t in touch. Once she had a child she reconnected with me, by that time I already had a 3 year old daughter as well as a son. We have been spending more time together recently with our children and while she doesn’t know that I am Atheist she has “caught on” that God is not in my children’s vocabulary. Bit by bit she has been introducing it to theirs in my presence. Most recently she invited us to a Christmas Party for her son and my kids and as I anticipated there was a strong religious theme. She read a children’s religious story and asked questions afterwards and rewarded them with a Children’s Religous story to take home for answering some questions. I was very uncomfortable in the situation and it has been bothering me ever since. I am at a bit of a loss with how to deal with it. Well truthfully I know what the best way to deal with it is, but I am not assertive by nature and this is one topic I really tend to avoid. I have described it in exactly the way you titled your post “Coming out of the Closet”. I have mixed feelings, I am angry at her for thinking it’s her place to introduce my children to religion/god, I sympathize that someone with a strong faith might be very upset at the thought of the people they love and care about not “meeting their maker” but ultimately I would never do what she did and is doing. Regardless of what I believe or don’t believe I don’t want my children to be indoctrinated. I want them to explore religion/faith on their own terms and in their own time. I would never think it was my place to sit her son down and teach him Evolution but then I know they are Christian’s she doesn’t know my beliefs or non beliefs. Any advice out there from yourself or your readers would be welcome.

]]> By: Lyndsay http://therottenlittlegirls.com/2009/01/13/coming-out-of-the-religious-closet/#comment-1231 Lyndsay Sat, 24 Jan 2009 06:48:48 +0000 http://therottenlittlegirls.com/?p=2234#comment-1231 Interesting, I have beliefs like Dolly's but I think I'd be in that 16% if someone gave me that survey. In Canada I think I've heard that 16% are non-believers and I've heard it's a higher number but not that much higher. At first I was surprised that there weren't more people here that don't identify with a religion. Church attendance HAS gone down a lot. I guess we don't talk about religion much. People talk about their religion once in a while but I never hear people talk about their atheism. When I think about the people I know, I can think of a bunch that identify with a religion and the rest I haven't talked to about religion. Though I do wonder how many people here identify with a religion but it's not a part of their daily life. I have cousins who've sent their kids to Catholic school and had them do the communion but I've never heard of them going to church or reading the Bible. Interesting, I have beliefs like Dolly’s but I think I’d be in that 16% if someone gave me that survey. In Canada I think I’ve heard that 16% are non-believers and I’ve heard it’s a higher number but not that much higher. At first I was surprised that there weren’t more people here that don’t identify with a religion. Church attendance HAS gone down a lot. I guess we don’t talk about religion much. People talk about their religion once in a while but I never hear people talk about their atheism. When I think about the people I know, I can think of a bunch that identify with a religion and the rest I haven’t talked to about religion. Though I do wonder how many people here identify with a religion but it’s not a part of their daily life. I have cousins who’ve sent their kids to Catholic school and had them do the communion but I’ve never heard of them going to church or reading the Bible.

]]> By: Shannon http://therottenlittlegirls.com/2009/01/13/coming-out-of-the-religious-closet/#comment-1160 Shannon Mon, 19 Jan 2009 12:41:06 +0000 http://therottenlittlegirls.com/?p=2234#comment-1160 My beliefs are weird. While I consider myself a witch because I use magic, I don't really believe in a lot of the 'witch' deities and I definitely don't follow all the so called rules that witchcraft has. If I wanted rules, i would have become Catholic.... Anyway, I believe. I just don't narrow down what I believe in. And I could totally see how there could be no god or gods or archetypes or afterlife or whatever. We are all just star dust held together with magnetism anyway. Congrats on this post. it's always good to see when people say 'Hey, I think this is fucked up and i'm not afraid to say it, even though I know people will look at me funny'. My beliefs are weird. While I consider myself a witch because I use magic, I don’t really believe in a lot of the ‘witch’ deities and I definitely don’t follow all the so called rules that witchcraft has. If I wanted rules, i would have become Catholic….

Anyway, I believe. I just don’t narrow down what I believe in. And I could totally see how there could be no god or gods or archetypes or afterlife or whatever. We are all just star dust held together with magnetism anyway.

Congrats on this post. it’s always good to see when people say ‘Hey, I think this is fucked up and i’m not afraid to say it, even though I know people will look at me funny’.

]]> By: Dollface http://therottenlittlegirls.com/2009/01/13/coming-out-of-the-religious-closet/#comment-1127 Dollface Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:42:46 +0000 http://therottenlittlegirls.com/?p=2234#comment-1127 @ Sisyphus – Thanks! @ Ms Constantine – Thanks for the comment. That comment someone left on your blog is pretty out there…I’ve gotten a lot of the same. It’s so holier-than-thou & patronizing to say stuff like “I hope you find God someday” @ lena – I look forward to reading it. @ Jackie – It’s all good to be non-committal. My boyfriend is agnostic and he says that there is no proof either way. We have interesting debates over it but it’s not really an issue since he “defaults” to thinking there is no God. @ Dolly – There is definitely stigma against religions that don’t conform to the same standards as the Big Three (Christianity, Islam, Judaism). Granted I think all of them are nutso, but I admit that I’m more comfortable talking to someone who is Unitarian Universalist or Buddhist than other religions (mostly because they are both very tolerant religions…or is that an oxymoron???) I’m a firm believer in the idea that war is caused by religion. Even the Iraq war, which arguably stems from greed for oil, is connected with Bush’s ideology. He said that he is doing “God’s mission” in Iraq. If you look at his foreign policy doctrine, he believes that spreading democracy is an American duty to the world…uh, the Crusades anyone? @ Sisyphus – Thanks!

@ Ms Constantine – Thanks for the comment. That comment someone left on your blog is pretty out there…I’ve gotten a lot of the same. It’s so holier-than-thou & patronizing to say stuff like “I hope you find God someday”

@ lena – I look forward to reading it.

@ Jackie – It’s all good to be non-committal. My boyfriend is agnostic and he says that there is no proof either way. We have interesting debates over it but it’s not really an issue since he “defaults” to thinking there is no God.

@ Dolly – There is definitely stigma against religions that don’t conform to the same standards as the Big Three (Christianity, Islam, Judaism). Granted I think all of them are nutso, but I admit that I’m more comfortable talking to someone who is Unitarian Universalist or Buddhist than other religions (mostly because they are both very tolerant religions…or is that an oxymoron???)

I’m a firm believer in the idea that war is caused by religion. Even the Iraq war, which arguably stems from greed for oil, is connected with Bush’s ideology. He said that he is doing “God’s mission” in Iraq. If you look at his foreign policy doctrine, he believes that spreading democracy is an American duty to the world…uh, the Crusades anyone?

]]> By: Dolly http://therottenlittlegirls.com/2009/01/13/coming-out-of-the-religious-closet/#comment-1122 Dolly Wed, 14 Jan 2009 20:10:13 +0000 http://therottenlittlegirls.com/?p=2234#comment-1122 I associate myself with Eastern philosophy, typically Buddhism--though a lot of people question whether things like Taoism and Buddhism and Confucianism are even religion. I've also become interested recently in Wicca and the spiritual traditions of indigenous peoples (courtesy Cecelia). I think I do search for something spiritual in my life, but I totally understand where you are coming from dollface. There is so much stigma in our society attached to atheists (and I think polytheists too). I believe it was LaMettrie who said that war was purely the cause of religion. And if you look back in history, it does seem like violence has been the result of people trying to force their religious beliefs on others. I think it's fair for people in our world to look for psychological contentment in religion and spirituality, but I definitely don't think forcing a single religious perspective on an entire population is right. It's your concluding paragraph that really gets at the heart of what you're conveying. You may not believe in a God, but that doesn't make you any less human or deserving of respect. You are deeply humanitarian, you are a feminist because you love and care about women, you blog about class and Marxism because you care about an end to poverty and world suffering. Having a God =/= being a good person. Having religion =/= being a good person. Desire and action to change the world for the better I'm much more inclined to say does. I associate myself with Eastern philosophy, typically Buddhism–though a lot of people question whether things like Taoism and Buddhism and Confucianism are even religion. I’ve also become interested recently in Wicca and the spiritual traditions of indigenous peoples (courtesy Cecelia). I think I do search for something spiritual in my life, but I totally understand where you are coming from dollface. There is so much stigma in our society attached to atheists (and I think polytheists too).

I believe it was LaMettrie who said that war was purely the cause of religion. And if you look back in history, it does seem like violence has been the result of people trying to force their religious beliefs on others. I think it’s fair for people in our world to look for psychological contentment in religion and spirituality, but I definitely don’t think forcing a single religious perspective on an entire population is right.

It’s your concluding paragraph that really gets at the heart of what you’re conveying. You may not believe in a God, but that doesn’t make you any less human or deserving of respect. You are deeply humanitarian, you are a feminist because you love and care about women, you blog about class and Marxism because you care about an end to poverty and world suffering. Having a God =/= being a good person. Having religion =/= being a good person. Desire and action to change the world for the better I’m much more inclined to say does.

]]> By: Jackie http://therottenlittlegirls.com/2009/01/13/coming-out-of-the-religious-closet/#comment-1117 Jackie Wed, 14 Jan 2009 00:51:00 +0000 http://therottenlittlegirls.com/?p=2234#comment-1117 I consider myself agnostic...for reasons unknown. I don't know how a god could exist, but I don't know how matter could form from nothing either. I guess I'm just non-committal. I consider myself agnostic…for reasons unknown. I don’t know how a god could exist, but I don’t know how matter could form from nothing either.

I guess I’m just non-committal.

]]> By: lena http://therottenlittlegirls.com/2009/01/13/coming-out-of-the-religious-closet/#comment-1116 lena Tue, 13 Jan 2009 22:15:33 +0000 http://therottenlittlegirls.com/?p=2234#comment-1116 Dollface - read Ishiguro, for sure! I loved Never Let Me Go in ways that I don't even think my review could capture! Stephenson is actually a really good book to follow Ishiguro - they address some of the same issues - but slightly differently. Dollface – read Ishiguro, for sure! I loved Never Let Me Go in ways that I don’t even think my review could capture!

Stephenson is actually a really good book to follow Ishiguro – they address some of the same issues – but slightly differently.

]]> By: Ms Constantine http://therottenlittlegirls.com/2009/01/13/coming-out-of-the-religious-closet/#comment-1115 Ms Constantine Tue, 13 Jan 2009 22:11:16 +0000 http://therottenlittlegirls.com/?p=2234#comment-1115 When I saw the title of your post in my reader I assumed it was from one of the atheist blogs I subscribe to so it was a nice surprise to see that it wasn't and that someone was coming out of the closet. Welcome! I tend to describe my feelings in a similare way. I don't believe in god, but I do have beliefs. This conversation actually happened on my blog once. <b>The patronising, disrespectful, assuming commenter said</b>: i respect your opinion, but it just seems impossible to live without believing in a higher power. I know for a fact that I would not be able to function and be healthy and happy if I believed there was no God. It sounds like such a sad existence to me. But hopefully you are doing okay, and maybe some day you will find something to believe in (hopefully it will be God- but believing in something is always better than believing in nothing!) <b>I said</b>: I do believe in lots of things, I believe in happiness, human rights, love, equality, family, friends, sparkles and science. When I saw the title of your post in my reader I assumed it was from one of the atheist blogs I subscribe to so it was a nice surprise to see that it wasn’t and that someone was coming out of the closet.

Welcome!

I tend to describe my feelings in a similare way. I don’t believe in god, but I do have beliefs.

This conversation actually happened on my blog once.
The patronising, disrespectful, assuming commenter said: i respect your opinion, but it just seems impossible to live without believing in a higher power. I know for a fact that I would not be able to function and be healthy and happy if I believed there was no God. It sounds like such a sad existence to me.
But hopefully you are doing okay, and maybe some day you will find something to believe in (hopefully it will be God- but believing in something is always better than believing in nothing!)

I said: I do believe in lots of things, I believe in happiness, human rights, love, equality, family, friends, sparkles and science.

]]> By: Sisyphus Fragment http://therottenlittlegirls.com/2009/01/13/coming-out-of-the-religious-closet/#comment-1114 Sisyphus Fragment Tue, 13 Jan 2009 20:00:18 +0000 http://therottenlittlegirls.com/?p=2234#comment-1114 Hey welcome to the Atheosphere! Hey welcome to the Atheosphere!

]]> By: Shawn Cain http://therottenlittlegirls.com/2009/01/13/coming-out-of-the-religious-closet/#comment-1113 Shawn Cain Tue, 13 Jan 2009 19:26:10 +0000 http://therottenlittlegirls.com/?p=2234#comment-1113 I suppose that is what made my nose twitch. Having to come out, using their language, even though they still will not get it. Either way, welcome to the officially professed atheist club. Nachos on the table. I suppose that is what made my nose twitch. Having to come out, using their language, even though they still will not get it. Either way, welcome to the officially professed atheist club. Nachos on the table.

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