Did Homosexuals Cause the Fall of Rome?
Okay, so I know everyone is upset about the passage of Proposition 8 in California. I agree that it is total bullshit, and I can only hope that the Supreme Court backs up gay rights on this one.
On a related note, check out this clip of the Ellen Degeneres show in which she responds to absolutely ridiculous claims made by Oklahoma state representative Sally Kern. I know this happened awhile ago but it has just recently exploded in the media given the blatantly oppressive situation out in California. The views expressed in the clip are simultaneously hilariously laughable but also kind of frightening…it is hard for me to realize that some people actually believe theories like this.
Now, can anyone come up with an example of a society that has collapsed because of the acceptance of gay communities? I mean, really, let’s just talk about the Roman Empire – they did have those damn bath houses…
P.S. Sally Kern has refused to apologize for her statements, claiming that she said “nothing that was not true.” And not everyone is outraged either; she received a standing ovation from Republican legislators shortly after. Apparently a lot of people believe that the gay community is simply a bastion of evil that will destroy the world, so much so that even people who fulfill positions of authority in the political world can go around running their mouths like this. Let’s not forget Sally, that is was not so long ago that women were seen as evil and destructive simply by existing – you probably would have been burned at the stake for making any statement at all. If you want to talk about indoctrination, perhaps you should look towards your own state and the policies you help pass there. She actually attempted to remove books that supported gays and lesbians from public libraries! So now we are getting to decide not only who can get married and to whom, but what books we can read? Come on Sally, that ain’t America, “the home of the free.”
- Harlequin
Wow. Thanks for posting this – I hadn’t heard anything about this lovely Ms Kern before. Sigh. We’ve come so far but we still have so far to go.
I actually hadn’t heard of her either. What a nut-case!! Sadly, however, I believe there are lots of people like her out there.
P.S. Interesting side note …in Ancient Greece it was customary for older men to partner with younger men as lovers and as mentors (pederasty, woohoo!). Yet, women were not allowed any relationship outside their marriage. I don’t think homosexuals were the downfall of Ancient Greece or Rome but maybe the sexism was ;-)
I’m glad you posted about this. I have an entire category for Sally Kern on my blog. :)
yes, this woman is laughable until you realize that she is actually a political authority…i mean, my God, these people obviously get elected somehow. and it’s ironic to note that rome and greece are remembered as some of the most influential and beautiful cultures in the world and they in fact did embrace homosexuality…
dhconcerts – i will have to check out your blog, thanks for stopping by!
- Harlequin
Ever heard of Sodom and Gomorrah? (Hint: That’s where the term “Sodomy” came from.) I don’t think anyone in this video mentioned Rome, so I don’t understand your argument.
Is it not true that there is a concerted effort to “educate” young children about homosexuality being an acceptable lifestyle? Is it not true that President Elect Obama wishes to have “age appropriate” sex education (whatever that is) in K-5?
@ felinitie — Sally Kern makes the remark that no culture that has approved of homosexuality has survived for longer than a few decades. Yet, when you look at history, there are several obvious contradictions to that statement: Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome.
Now, before anyone gets up in arms, I am by no means saying that homosexuality was a norm in these societies. However homosexuality did exist in those two cultures and homosexuals were not wildly persecuted, as they have been in many other cultures.
As for your point about education — there is a difference between education and indoctrination. A good education should teach reason and tolerance. Through the process of education, students may come to the conclusion that homosexuality is acceptable. Most teachers do not politicize their teaching, and I think you would be hard-pressed to find classes that indoctrinate their students to think one way or another about this debate (at least on the elementary/middle school levels). In fact, sexuality was barely breached in my elementary school classes (whether hetero or homo).
Also, don’t patronize us or our readers. Of course the term sodomy comes from “Sodom”. Common knowledge, that.
felinitie: thank you for reading. i have a few things to address. first of all, the mention of rome was a joke, tongue in cheek. i was being facetious. clearly that sense of humor went under the radar of your conservative biblical intelligence.
and dollface is right on about education vs. indoctrination. the point we and many other people are making, is that we believe homosexuality IS an acceptable lifestyle, and it has been in centuries past. if being open-minded is offensive to you, then home school your children or send them to catholic school – and keep them out of the school system that embraces the acceptance of many different lifestyles (not just those that have come to power out of a society dominated by wealthy white men using religious ideology to keep things the way they want).
as for age appropriate sex education – obama’s point is to educate children about what is NOT okay. we are not handing out condoms, we are allowing children to be prepared in the event of molestation or pedophilia. please, forgive us for trying to prevent something as sick as that. next time, perhaps you should get your facts straight about public policy.
lastly, i have heard of sodom and gomorrah. i read the bible not because i think it is factual, but because it is relevant as people such as yourself and sally kern continuously refer to it as a life guide. i personally do not live my life by it by any means. if you do, good for you, but keep your religion out of my life. so thank you for the biblical reference, but you seem to forget that the story is not true. it is a lesson on morality…teaching the same “morals” that people like you try to enforce upon others through religious doctrine. the whole idea of sexual deviance and its relationship to homosexuality is absolutely ludicrous in my opinion. in addition, the whole concept of cruelty and arrogance are stressed as sins of sodom – kind of ironic that you seem to be showing those same two qualities, eh?
thanks for reading and expressing your opinion.
-Harlequin
it’s just so sad!
ellen’s reaction and my reaction to the comments that woman made were the same. i was totally shocked and insulted that a person actually believes that! like gays are kidnapping children forcing them to accept and tolerate? my face went blank.
she is such an embarrassment. i’m humiliated to know that she is any type of authoritative figure in this country.
I LOVE Ellen. No screams or shouts. No obscenities. No raging and ranting. I’m sure she’s absolutely mortified that Prop 8 passed and outraged by this woman’s words, but look at how she handles that energy. Instead of getting pissed, she channels that anger into a positive action: she calls the woman! She *CALLS* her. I don’t know if I’d have the vag to do that. This is the kind of maturity, calmness, almost transcendence we need to end homophobia and heterosexism. Great post, harlequin! :D
ooh, and i read the comments only AFTER i posted mine. harlequin and dollface – i love you!
mermaid – the whole idea is ridiculous…we are purely preaching acceptance, we are not forcing kids to be homosexuals. i mean come on! and yes, ms. sally kern is making policies somewhere out there. we should all be very afraid. and…umm…haha thanks for reading our post and our comments…we love you too! i got a little testy with that last one…
dollyann – i know! i completely agree with you about ellen. she is such an amazing and intelligent person, and i love how she not only manages to stay composed at all times, but she also manages to have a sense of humor about it. she is living her life and i am sure other people’s opinions like that bother her a bit, but she doesn’t let it affect her at all. i love ellen too! i always thought she was hilarious but the more i learn about her, the more i respect her.
thank you guys for reading…the comments are the best part of this blog!
- Harlequin
“I don’t know if I’d have the vag to do that.” :D :D :D THAT WAS AWESOME DOLLYANN
I think if every girl could say that we’d have a much better world. ;)
hahaha you guys rock
Homosexuality is so yesterday. The future is all about true heterosexual marriages where men and women do not cheat on one antoher and spawn a whole new generation of unhappy little homosexual children. That is what is going to turn this country around and save it from the gates of hell.
Tell me why did Rome fall? You talk of change, but I want to know your future if homosexuality prevails? I would trust a scholar much more than your opinions, and there are many scholars who believe that homosexuality is one of the downfalls of several destroyed civilizations. I think you see as that homosexuality means nothing to us in the now but what will homosexuality be in the future? How will it effect us in the future?